Happiness Essential to unlock the teams Hidden Potential – NISSMAT Podcast

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening to all the viewers of NISSMAT. I am General DK Meta. I am the director enterprise of NISSMAT. NISSMAT stands for National Institute of Safety, Security, Management and Applied Technology. We address contemporary subjects of interest based on the time and the environment at this time. So today we are going to be talking on happiness essential to unlock the team's potential, because be it any team, be it corporate world, be it industry, be the armed forces or central armed police, everyone works on a team. So I thought it was very important to be talking on this in the present day environment.

For this we have two very distinguished speakers who have tremendous credentials to them. One is Lieutenant General BS Sandu. He has had approximately four decades of service in the army, a distinguished service for that. He has been, as he was, both career both in the civvy street as well as post retirement. He's had a very credible career in the army. He was the DGST, that is Director General Supplies and Transport, which got a very honorous task of procuring, warehousing and supplying the supplies right in any type of terrain, be it hills, snow peaks, everywhere, and besides that he was also the DG Information Technology. I'll call him doctor — he has done a PhD in strategic studies. Besides the army and post retirement, he's been talking on management. He has been taking lectures in various places, be it corporate world, in the industry and also in the institutions. As a sportsman, he represented India and the India Polo Association both in India and abroad. That is as far as General Sandu is concerned.

Gagan is a corporate strategist, the CXO coach and board advisor, crosscultural leadership, project investment analyst and new project development, X5 employees production. He had 27 years of management experience behind him. He has trained more than one lakh professionals in the strategic aspects and management. He has headed a large number of business enterprises: the Mitsubishi group in New Delhi, the strategic office of the Global Human Network Hong Kong. He's a board member of the Nippon Steel Japan. He's a board member and director of the Metal One India and director GWEPP, motivational speaker. Besides that he's also got a number of awards. He's a cross-cultural leader, a title in June 2013 in Singapore, the global strategy professional May 2012 in Hong Kong and also the business leader March 2002. With that I will request General Sandu to give his views on this aspect of happiness to bring in the potential of the people working under him under any organization.

Thank you sir. You know, something that I — with all the qualifications with Gagan and all the experience that he has — I call my only asset is having led military as a way of life for four decades. And when you say in uniform, I joined uniform at the age of nine when I joined a standing school. So 68 minus 9, I've been in uniform, and now the color of the blood is almost in uniform. And I feel there is no other place in the world which can teach us aspects of management. And when I speak to the corporate, I realize that everything in the military is relevant to the corporates and to the private enterprises and to an individual's own life.

So happiness is a prerequisite to lead men into logistics or battle or to be a military man. If I can't keep my team happy, I'm not worth, you know, being the leader. So I find that's a prerequisite. It's not a favor. It's not a state of extra achievement. So to me I kept thinking, what is happiness? Happiness basically for, as a layman, would be a person's — a professional who's working under you, a team member's — individual aspirations, his stability in terms of finances and otherwise, and his relationships. Right? How is he placed with his family, with his children, with his parents? Is he financially safe enough not to be tempted, to worry about his financial state, and is his professional growth secure? And anybody I saw in the military who gives too much of weightage to one of the three at the cost of the other one, he loses balance, and his concept of happiness will invariably clash with the interests of the organization.

Second aspect of happiness or creation of happiness, I feel as a leader or as a team member you have to work on a win-win situation and not zero sum game. Having your happiness at the cost of another colleague, junior or a senior, is going to again upset the organization's output at some stage or the other. It might look very nice in the beginning. So I feel to meet this prerequisite, all that you need to do is be a good leader. And like I always say, leadership is very simple but extremely difficult to execute. So we all know what it involves to being a good leader, as we all know how to shed weight and become fit. It is only the samosa and the jalabbe which takes you away from weight and fitness, and it is the laziness in the morning which takes you away from your exercise, and temptations take you away from your goal. So being a good leader, being a good team member, exhibiting bonhomie, exhibiting synergy amongst each other and creating a win-win situation is something which will surely lead to this prerequisiteness of happiness in success of any team.

Right. Gagan, how about you?

Yeah, thank you sir. So allow me to share a small story which is a very beautiful definition of happiness, and it's called Bodhi Dharma's hell. So many centuries ago there was a legendary Chinese emperor, who — so this was the emperor who was actually responsible for spreading Buddhism in China. So he spent all his life making monasteries, making educational centers, shelters. But he himself was very unhappy. So he would do more and he would get more unhappiness. So one fine day he went to a great counselor and he said, "I am doing so much good for the people but I always remain so unhappy. So tell me, what should I do?" So this Chinese preacher said that the one person who can answer your challenge or predicament is the great Indian mystique Bodhi Dharma. So why don't you call Bodhi Dharma to China?

So upon his invitation Bodhi Dharma came. But of course, as you know, it took months and months. So the emperor was so restless that he went to literally the gates of his kingdom to greet Bodhi Dharma. So right over there, the moment Bodhi Dharma came, a day he took to rest, relax. The next day in the morning the emperor went, touched his feet and explained his whole dilemma: that I'm doing so much, I'm doing everything so lovingly, so kindly, but I am myself always very unhappy, so please tell me when will I get my reward, how will I get my reward, will I go to heaven or what would happen to me. Upon this Bodhi Dharma gave a very beautiful reply, sir. He said that, oh Emperor Wu, your reward is that you will rot in hell in misery and pain till you are alive and beyond. So this was really very shocking for Emperor Wu and he was startled. He said, hey come on man, what are you saying? I do so much good for everyone and still you are saying that my only gift is unhappiness, my only gift is going to be to rot in hell.

And at that time, sir, Bodhi Dharma gave a very beautiful definition which is called Bodhi Dharma's hell. And he said, and I quote, that the hell is nothing else but when you are doing the right thing and doing it to the best of your ability but still waiting for somebody else to give you reward. And as a corollary, Bodhi Dharma's heaven is nothing else: when you're doing the right thing, you are doing it to the right of your ability, and you know that the act of doing the right thing is the reward in itself. And that day this very beautiful definition of Bodhi Dharma's heaven was really spread around, and probably a similar message has been given by Lord Krishna also — that because the only thing which is in your hand, the only person which is in your hand, the only mind which is in your hand, is yours.

So I would like to open with this Bodhi Dharma's hell concept: that at the end of the day, the reality of our life is that we are intertwined with numerous other lives who will have different expectations from us. The definition of good to them might be different for us — a wife or kids or uncle, aunties. So I would think that I'm doing so much good to them. I would think that I'm so kind to my wife, I'm so generous to my three kids, but probably their interpretation might be different. I'm starting from a family and then I'll link with my postings at Mitsubishi Hong Kong, Thailand and Japan later. All of this entirely then gets condensed into Bodhi Dharma's concept: that if you believe that you're doing ethically and morally the right thing, and if you believe that you're doing it to the best of your ability, then happiness to me is knowing that the act of doing that thing is your reward. This is essentially intrinsic motivation which will make you happy. And that was the lesson from Bodhi Dharma's hell which I learned.

Now I'd like to briefly correlate and link it with Mitsubishi. So when I passed out of IIM Ahmedabad, I joined Mitsubishi group, and among the first postings I worked at Pattaya — not at the famous Pattaya beach, but just by the side of the beach there is a city called Sira, which is also called Detroit of the East, because at that time all the legendary players — Chrysler, General Motors, Ford — they were there, and Mitsubishi was also there. So if you would know, you respected gentlemen would know that on 1st July 1997, there was the great Southeast Asian economy collapse. Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand — their currencies toppled like anything. That was the fortunate or the unfortunate time when yours truly was posted at Pattaya. So no time for fun, all work.

So I was posted at a company called Sam Nippon Pipe. Very close to the beach, but of course nowhere the joys of the beach. We were typically making some high quality steel tubes, and our president was a guy called Mr. Nagawa. Now he was a stickler for rules, and because Nippon had just made this investment and literally within a couple of months the economy had crashed, so demand was zero. Nobody was buying cars, nobody was buying anything. Even exports were down. And Mr. Nagawa was known to be — I of course experienced — a very strict dictator. He said literally, if I were to paraphrase, till we don't make profit I want all of you to be here and I want strict discipline: no talking, no nothing, just go sell, sell, sell. I was only million to the sell side, but no matter how much we tried — of course I was relatively a young baby at that time — our results were very poor. Most of the days we would come back empty-handed.

So one day Mr. Nagawa said, but you guys can't do sales. The only team which is working well is our machine team. So there was a local Thai gentleman. He said, I don't know how he's doing so well. So one night it so happened that Mr. Nagawa came for a night shift check to find out. And this team which was working marvels on machine maintenance, preventive maintenance — in that specific corner there was loud music. They were having those Thai noodles and probably, what I am told, because I wouldn't have witnessed, even having a small local Thai Singha beer. And the MD, or the president, was absolutely shocked. So next day he called that manager of that shop: key, what was happening? I was always appreciating you are doing so much work, but you were singing, you were dancing, so what the hell are you doing, man?

And that day what that manager said — I was also present in that meeting in the morning — has been a startling revelation, and probably what BB has been saying linked to eventual factor of happiness being the sort of genesis of everything. He said, and I quote, that sir, my local four men are as it is under tremendous stress because of external environment. So the world is stabbing them. Bonuses are almost zero. Other things are also very much stressful, and their family is also under pressure because of this. The only one duty which I think I can do is — because they have to repair the machines — I am nothing else but I am a happiness trader. So so long as I am giving them happiness, I can assure you the performance is going three times, four times, and the result is there for you to see. If you are so strict, I will actually switch off the radio. I'll stop those economic subsidized Thai baht noodles. But then trust me, the only one thing which I can give to them will also stop, because it is this free spirit of happiness which is making them work at double the pace. And that was a big lesson. Mr. Nagawa changed a bit. He made the things relaxed. Thanks to that day, we were also allowed our share of noodles and Budweiser.

So taking this on a summary note, basically what I learned through my almost 30 years of corporate life, sir: as it is, the external world is there to kill you, competition is there to kill you, your rivals are there, so many other things. So as a leader, the definition of leadership is nothing else but to create an environment where people do not feel the stress from inside, and once they have psychological safety, they automatically fall from Bodhi Dharma's hell and move into Bodhi Dharma's heaven, you know. So and that's what I have tried to do, and that's what as a HR director I did my best to try and spread across the Mitsubishi group.

I have a few things towards this, you know, happiness within the team. You know, it increases the motivational level of the members. They can go into, you know, ingenious methods of doing a thing. The communication within the team itself improves. They know, you know, backbiting and backstabbing cases — when the team is happy, and when the team is happy then they give the best to the organization, and it is collaborative trust between the members of the team. If there's one bad fish in the team, the whole environment of the team, you know, gets corrupted. So I think as a leader, it's very important to make sure that you keep the team happy, keep them motivated, and they can produce results. They have more resilience to any — and you know, when there's a problem which comes up, they have a way to get out of it.

Yes, because they have a mind to think. The leader gives them the opportunity to speak openly of the processes and also of the shortcomings and how can we improve further. So I think as a team it's important to keep a happy team to get the motivation, the resilience, the communications, and yeah, their output will be much better if the team is happy, and that's how you get the best potential. And if you find the team is happy, you know the people — now what is happening, jumping from one job to the other.

Yes, that will stop.

Absolutely, because they feel they are part of the team, they're being heard. And the aspect in the corporate world, and also anyway for that matter, they feel that they are here for a better job than anywhere else. This is my take on it. I don't know how do you feel of it.

Also sir, see, one of the major issues is how the leader sets an example, going back to the same army way of life. In fact, my son, my elder son, joined KPMG as his first job in the consultancy, and after a year he tells me that I haven't struck a good deal, there are others who are getting paid much better. I said, are you happy with the job? He says yes. He was extremely happy with his colleagues and with his hierarchy and the way they were. I said, you're learning? He says yes. I said, then I'll make up your shortfall. You enjoy life, continue. How does it matter if you get something less? And KPMG next year gave preference to service officers' children as fresh hiring and made him as the lead to train them, because of regimentation, because we have this loyalty.

Now how does this loyalty come? Finances and, you know, compensation is an issue which of course it's a leader's job to keep in mind, but if he sets an example — he cannot teach things and do something else himself. Most leaders feel, you know, it is different to give a lecture, but I can get away; who sees me and how will they know? Now that is where the happiness impediments start coming in. You have to be extremely transparent, and everything stops with the leader and starts with the leader. If you are transparent, if you are compromising on your benefits for the sake of your team, I think they will compromise ten times more.

Because I found as a director general, I used to have a monthly conference, and there's a typical thing: now every general who comes, he likes to make changes. So I told on day one, as a gentleman, we will only make those changes on which we all agree, because there's so much to do where we all agree. So let's do that first. And two is, if there is a difference of views, we will go —

You collected them as a team and getting their views, what I was saying, to give the views.

In that case, we will have a voting, and only if 80% vote we will do a thing. So I was very excited — some things which are in your mind for ages. So one day in my — we used to have a monthly conference of 40 officers. So I said, why don't we do — and the like, lack of interest. So I said, I think we have conflicting views. Let's put it to vote. So only two people voted for me. Rest all bluntly said no. So I said, thank you. I said, take it as the biggest compliment. You told me your ideas, and don't open your mouth again. And I said, I'll carry it for my life that my organization could stand up to me and take my words seriously when I said you have to open up.

That's right.

A major general carried a file with me, and I said, sir, this is an important file, you know, your decision. So I said, what about this? He said, sir, I'll come back to you. I said, listen, the colonel has made the file. You'll go back, you'll ask the colonel, you'll come back to me tomorrow after seeing my light is green, and I said then I'll ask you another question, you'll again go back. I said, yeah, you don't have to impress me. You're such an important man. We made a thing in our house: they said, recommended for your approval, Major ABC is carrying the file to explain to you any questions that you have. So that kind of a transparency, accountability — and this gave, I felt — and in my only conference I used to say one thing: as a gentleman, all that I have to sum up is thank you very much, because I have never worked for anyone as much as you work for me. I've been a shammer.

So happiness is not about only giving privileges. Happiness is about generating that electric current for them to be jumpy to work. And they can only work if you are giving decisions in time, if you are exhibiting that you have selflessness to work more for the organization, and if you do not have favorites, and if you do not have people going around you. For nobody used to come around me; I used to go to people. Nobody came in a party to impress me, because they know you don't need to impress. I said, I'm impressed by everyone. So the point I'm saying is, this openness which we keep talking about, transparency, this efficiency with transparency, setting an example, brings in happiness, I think, in a corporate or an organizational —

Yeah, it amounts to the fact that engagement naturally raises more and gives you more confidence. The people can talk to you and tell you exactly what they feel of it, and then you take a call thereafter. So that is how a team I think needs to work.

Yes, absolutely. And Gagan, that is how, by and large, in the organizations that Bir and me work, that is how the system works. I don't know how the —

It's marvelous. In fact, his story has attacked me so much. If that is so, there is a term for this: it's called psychological safety. Yeah. So it's very important that a leader, especially in position of powers, should have it in them — that larger concept of EQ over IQ — to accept that he or she may be wrong. So what sir has just spoken is very motivational for me to hear, that if those are the values that a leader lives by, organizations would be a different place.

So like, since I was with very giant conglomerates, private conglomerates, which were of course money-making machines — so Nippon Steel in that era was the biggest steel maker of the world, Mitsubishi was a Fortune top 10 company in that era. So the problem was promotions were a symbol of being very righteous and capable also. So whoever was the boss — I mean, sir's story has resonated with my heart so much — used to have a near dictatorial approach, so much so that at Nippon there was an issue that young capable people were feeling stifled, just like Bal Sab's son came to the dad and ours. So young kids — not kids, young engineers — were reluctant to join Nippon Steel because there is too much of a dictatorial setup.

So at that time a rule, a moral code of conduct, was announced which was essentially called alert more, shift less. So I repeat: alert more, shift less. It was a behavioral protocol which simply was made for a song to rhyme. It said: ask more, speak less; listen more, haste less; empathize more, insist less; respectful more, fabrication less; tactful more, tur less. So if I just simply explain, a simple rule was enshrined: four is to one rule. So I also had the great privilege of becoming that executive director at that 21st floor right next to the emperor's palace at our Marunouchi office. So the thing was that whenever juniors would come, their opportunity to speak would be too less. So a moral code was established that if there has to be a meeting with the director, it should be maximum five minutes. And so the interesting thing which I say is, in the five minutes the director cannot speak more than one minute. So the junior should be given an opportunity to speak up, express. So that was ask more, speak less.

Yes. And then listen was all about active listening — that we were encouraged to — this is a phone, but we were encouraged to have a small diary. So for every meeting, even as a director, when a junior is there, we were supposed to write one or two main learnings from them. So listen more, haste less means do not dismiss, just listen. This is when they will have that feeling of Maslow's fifth hierarchy. And then empathize, remain respectful and be tactful. So this small slogan, alert more shift less, had such a tectonic transformation in the culture that by the time I took VRS, which was around 2019, came back to India — like somewhere sir spoke about employee loyalty and employee engagement — it had done leaps and bounds to that particular figure for our organization.

So when I look back at that and link it with what sir has said from his perspective as an army leader, also as a father, I guess it all boils down to the definition of a great leader. And I think it was Ronald Reagan, the US president, who once said that — who was a great leader? So a great leader is not necessarily someone who himself makes great strategies, great profit making plans, but a great leader is someone in whose presence others feel great about themselves.

Yeah, carry his team with him. Yes, behind you.

Because if they feel good about themselves — like the anecdote which he narrated with his junior, who then was tendered towards his colonel — if you make them feel this sense of empowerment, they will come back with double the energy. Sir used the word loyalty. The loyalty, that's important. That's where I think the whole trick lies.

Also sir, there's a difference — and in fact I speak very often on it — is transitioning from lower, middle to higher leadership. In the case of army, there's a different way of exhibiting your leadership when you're a captain, major, up to a colonel. And then thereafter you have to sit back and think. And I advise all this to young officers who are becoming — young officers means officers who are becoming brigadiers and generals. I tell them, listen: one, firstly, have a big heart. Now that era of kitkit is gone. Now you are a big guy. You have to make others work in a manner that your organization gets that tick. Earlier you were a monkey working and somebody else was exhibiting the organization. So I said, it's not about you. Two, don't expect everyone to work at your pace when you are that, otherwise they will all reach your place, and you have to now see whom to fit how. So one is large heart. Second is, don't try to sort out juniors. If you want to sort out, sort out your seniors. That's the place to take panga. Don't tell a subordinate, I'll bloody sort you out. He deserves sorting out? Quietly throw him out, right? Sort him out. You don't have to tell, because you've got power.

And I felt that I was very happy with myself. When I was a colonel — and I mean, I've been doing a lot of these monkey things; when I retired I said, gentlemen, I stand today to thank all those with whom I locked horns, that didn't fix me, and not those that I worked and they rewarded me. They did me no favor. I worked for the bastards that gave it to me. So I was a colonel, and one day one captain in front of three officers came. He says, I can't do this, sir. I can't do this. I can't do. I didn't react. So I went to my office. I gave myself a pat on my back. Yeah, good. I have bloody grown up. And I called him to my office. I said, listen, how the hell did you have the guts to talk to me like that? He said — I said, even if I remove my rank now, I can make a bloody mess out of you and crush you. You're so smart in front of me. No, no, sir. I'm sorry, sir. I thought that, sir. I thought — I said, and I was laughing inside, I said, to think, thought is all right. I said, the fact is, I was more thrilled with myself that I didn't take it as an insult, because I'm a big man already, and his talking to me in a wrong manner in front of three chairs cannot get me down. I'm already — and I always thought myself as a very big man right from the major's days.

And now, I turn a bit religious. There is a very good sh by Guru Gobind Singh. Look at that leadership. And I always say, if you want to learn military leadership, just learn about Singh.

I agree.

You know, father, children, himself — he's a philosopher, he's a saint, he's a soldier, he's a warrior. So I have always maintained that you have to be thankful to your subordinates for wherever, whatever you achieve. Happiness will automatically —

You see, Gagan, in our organization is the annual confidential report. Everyone is trying to get the best and they're working hard. The other day, sometime back, I met a CEO of a multinational and I asked him how's the situation in your organization, in the multinationals. It's the fear — he gave me one — it's the fear factor. The fear factor is that if I don't produce, I'm given the pink slip. As a team, that fear has to be removed. It takes time for a person who joins a new organization to settle in. I do not know what is the time factor for that settling in. You would know better. But the fear of pink slip, you see, it has two connotations. First, the fear of losing a job. Second aspect is, tread on your colleague's toes so that I progress and that chap goes behind.

That's true. That's true, sir.

You see, these are two very important facets. As a team, I think it should be a harmonious team. If anyone has a problem, come back to the leader. They need me to sorting it out and to get the best out of it. The motivation, the ingenuity, the energy to work is dependent on the happiness of the team per se. And this fear of pink slip, I think, is a very dangerous thing which is coming up.

So the other side of the story is that in the corporate world, the moving in and out, or the attrition rate, is so high that it's a very challenging job to bring in those personalized leadership things. That means it becomes even more demanding on the leader. Like, General was in infantry, I was in logistics. As he started as a second lieutenant with those 150 men, then went on to command the 700 with whom also he has worked, whereas when I went to command, I didn't know one out of them, and every few months men are changing. So it becomes more demanding on the leader to establish yourself with a new set of people every few days. So that is the demand in the corporate world. But at the same time, it is doable. It's not — because then, like you said, Gagan, it becomes the culture of that unit: listen here, if you are working, you won't be sacked.

But I think my TEDx talk is on soldiering, sports and leadership, and my last line is: treat life like a game where a goal is a goal and a foul is a foul. So in the corporate world, if I make those rules very clear, and if I play by those rules, you will have a culture of no fear of pink slip. Like, sir, I was commanding this unit in Delhi the first time as a major. The first person I punished with that red ink entry was a chap who was working in the office, in my office. He came late from leave or something like that. So people said, he is from the office. I said, he must get punished fast. And then I used to request my people close to me, I said, please, for my sake, don't come late from leave. I will have to punish you a little more than others. So the rules of the game were so clear. And sir, when I was with the infantry one year, my subedar major — I was the adjutant — he told me, he said, sir, your way of working, you'll find lot of problems. Because men are — this 40 years, not one day did I ever feel that I don't get that loyalty. Absolutely. They are so quick to reward you and see you. So we as a lot, like the corporate world. So I feel it is doable — what General is saying, it is doable — but then it's more demanding on the leader.

He has to be on the ball. He has to be setting an example. He has to be sacrificing. He has to give up a little bit of his for the organization. When he's giving up, the others say — whereas the other day I was asked for e-voting of a company, I will not name it. It had two resolutions: to enhance the compensation of the owner, major contributor — what do you call, the investor?

Managing investor or CEO.

Not investor — the guy who's a stakeholder beyond the company law — and to enhance the system of the CEO. So that is all that you are voting for. Why have they done that right down to that bottom guy? If you haven't done, don't do it for yourself.

That's right.

Because ultimately you don't need so much. You don't need so much. You don't have to compete with Adani or Ambani and making an Antilia or whatever. That Antilia itself is a question mark on leadership, right? Because when somebody has made me a general, I'm a big man. I've been put on a chair I never deserved, and very few. So where do I have to now go and get an extra vehicle for myself, or extra this, and one extra flag flowing when I am going, or some drinking? Somebody asked me, you know, a better whiskey — what nonsense, you already reached there. You need to be — and that is where Singh and Abdul Kalam and Narayana Murthy come into play.

Yes, you're right. And Gagan, any additional point? Because I think you're running short of time, you have to go.

Yeah, just one final thought. I think sir has summed up everything. If I were to sort of give my concluding thoughts, it's all about making sure that the people you are working with are aligned, because it's like, if they're not aligned, then there'll be friction. The perspective that I need to add is that organizations also — because I was in both seats. I was a management trainee, assistant manager, grew up all the way to be like that George Clooney position, firing the underperformers. So it is challenging, because I was having a lot of experience of working in complex subsidiaries where both the owners are putting lot of pressure: get profit, get profit.

So one thing which worked, which is a practical tip which leaders should try to do to make a more acceptably happier environment where there is healthy stress and healthy happiness — there were five components which worked, and they worked a lot. We established a factory at Neemrana called Nippon Pipe India — same factory which was there, but that's an anecdote for another day. So what we did over here was we came up with a concept called a great team. A great team is a happy team. So this rule we did here at Neemrana was: G for goal clarity. A team can only get synchronized if everybody knows the goal. So we were essentially making those tubes for all two-wheeler or four-wheeler makers. So targets were given: this is what you have to have, and everybody, irrespective of whether you're from production or from purchase or from quality, you are working to this goal. So you are not allowed to say that this is not my department, this is his department.

So second was role clarity. So the R was role key. Within this broader paraphernalia, I must focus on this, but I must help others also. So when we made the K systems, K had a component, a certain weighted: two-thirds of what I am doing, one-third what I'm helping others do. Three — I am very sure army is the most beautiful example; now I am sitting in front of army legend, so I cannot have the temerity to quote army — but if I am at other places I use this to quote: Amit is enemy clarity. Of course it's both the time. So what happens, like sir said, there is promotion rivalry, so we try to glorify our competition with other players. So then Sumit will win, Mitsubishi will lose. If you don't do well, then let's say Tata will win, Nippon — so believe you me, sir, we used this very powerfully to galvanize teams. It's literally like how Sanjie Kumar used to fight against Gab. So that was another thing — they were so, don't worry, like — so this was the third.

A, which we used a lot: A was about attitude. In short term it means just be sensitive to others. So attitude meant even if you are saying the right thing, but if you're saying it in the wrong way, it is you who will be considered wrong. So there were 11 rules; some other day I'll explain or talk about them. So attitude has to be essentially like sad, humble. And T was tactful transformation of yourself. So every day you need to change yourself. And trust me, sir, it worked wonders, because our factory was not doing good financially, but when this happened at a very rapid pace, we competed and became reasonably successful. And the biggest credit — that award that you spoke about was given because we did something called employee engagement survey, and across Nippon Steel's factories at Spain, London, three factories in China — our factory, Neemrana, we were blessed with lots of cobras because we were the first factory to be established — the happiness quotient was the highest. So this is just one final thought from my side: that great —

And what you are saying, I'll give in a small example, but we would be fully aware of it. I was at the Army War College, and in a setup which were 12 colonels, everyone had a separate charter, but our intercommunication was tremendous. Anyone having a problem would come to me, or if I had a problem to resolve, I would go to him. There was no problem of intercommunication because it was a very happy team. Everyone had a job to do. Everyone had a K, and there was not a problem.

So I think we have covered lot of space on this issue. What, to sum up, I will say that it's a very big responsibility for the leader to make a happy team. Happy team gives the motivation, the energy for the people to work in a happy situation. And the intercommunication — there's no backstabbing, there's no stepping on others' toes. These are things which make a happy team, and that is how the organization, anyone for that matter, progresses. Any other point from any one of you, please? Thank you very much indeed.

Thank you sir. Thank you sir. Thank you so much. Thank you sir. Thank you Gagan. Yeah, thank you B sir.