Under PMLA, money laundering is defined as any process or activity connected with the proceeds of a crime. The unique feature of PMLA is that it does not operate in isolation. It is intrinsically linked to “scheduled offences” relating to serious crimes under other Legislations & Acts.
What this session covered
This session took the form of an interview rather than a panel: the host put questions to a single speaker, introduced as a retired Indian Police Service officer who had headed the Enforcement Directorate before superannuating. The host's opening remarks set out the structure of the Prevention of Money Laundering Act, its dependence on scheduled or predicate offences under other statutes, and the recurring difficulties of tracing money across borders, case volume, trial length and the admissibility of evidence. The speaker then worked through the obstacles he considered most significant, drawing on his own tenure.
Much of the discussion concerned institutional capacity. The speaker described a substantial gap during his tenure between the directorate's sanctioned strength of 2068 and an actual strength of 531, and recounted two proposals he had made in response: extending to the directorate the pay incentive already available to another central investigating agency, and moving deputation recruitment at the lower levels from one selection route to another to speed intake. He said both were eventually approved and that posts have since been filled. He also described setting up in-house cyber laboratories after forensic reports on digital evidence from the central facility were taking between six months and two years. He argued that India has produced no indigenous financial analysis tool, that data arrives in incompatible formats from different banks with some material still only on paper, and that a proposal for a search facility at the central bank — which he said matters because inter-bank transactions are centrally recorded while intra-bank transfers are not, a gap relevant to tracing shell company chains — was discussed but never implemented. On the frequently cited conviction rate, he argued that the figure is commonly miscalculated by dividing convictions by cases sent for trial rather than by cases actually decided, and that proceedings against well-resourced accused are prone to delay.
On international cooperation, the speaker characterised letters rogatory and extradition as political as well as judicial processes, governed by dual criminality and capable of running through a requested state's full appellate hierarchy; he cited one extradition matter in which the judicial process had concluded but the executive order had not followed for years, and another in which information sought from a foreign bank had still not arrived. He outlined the roles of the Egmont Group of financial intelligence units and of the Financial Action Task Force, formed in 1989, with its forty recommendations, its eleven effectiveness outcomes, its regional bodies and its mutual evaluation and grey-listing mechanisms, and referred to evaluation proceedings concerning Pakistan's failure to freeze the funds of charitable front organisations associated with proscribed groups. Asked about ideologically motivated funding within India, he distinguished foreign-contribution routes, since tightened by amendment, from left-wing extremist financing, which he attributed largely to extortion and protection payments alongside support from urban sympathisers. Domestically he raised the tension between the questioning provision of the Act and the constitutional protection against self-incrimination, the absence of a finalised departmental manual to structure discretion, weak evidence sharing between multiple investigating agencies working at cross purposes, a designated lead-agency mechanism that has not become functional, investigations that extend beyond the proceeds of crime into entire businesses, and the arraigning of very large numbers of accused where some might better have been made witnesses. He noted timelines introduced by the new criminal procedure statute as a positive step whose implementation remains to be seen, and, asked what reform might be achievable in the near term, suggested that reports presently made to the adjudicating authority should instead go to the criminal court trying the case.
Key points raised
- The session was a single-speaker interview conducted by the host, not a panel discussion.
- Manpower shortfall was presented as the first hurdle addressed during the speaker's tenure, with a sanctioned strength of 2068 against an actual strength of 531; he said pay-incentive parity and a faster recruitment route were subsequently approved.
- The speaker argued that the directorate's conviction rate is routinely miscalculated against cases sent for trial rather than cases decided.
- Delays in forensic examination of digital evidence, ranging from six months to two years, prompted the establishment of in-house cyber laboratories; the speaker said India still procures all financial analysis tools from abroad.
- Letters rogatory and extradition were described as political as well as judicial processes subject to dual criminality, with examples of requests unresolved over many years.
- Domestic constraints discussed included the tension between the Act's questioning provision and the constitutional protection against self-incrimination, the absence of a finalised departmental manual, and poor coordination and evidence sharing between investigating agencies.
Session transcript
This transcript is auto-generated from the session recording and lightly edited for punctuation and readability; it may contain transcription errors. The video remains the authoritative record.
Read the full transcript
A very good morning. Good morning, sir, to you Karnal Singh ji and to all the viewers. I am S. Paul Singh, former IG Punjab and ex-chief of Rapid Action Force, Government of India. I'm here with you this morning as a president of NISSMAT. NISSMAT is a think tank organization and it conducts discussions, deliberations and webinars with scholars and reputed social and political personalities. The ex defence services officers, ex bureaucrats and eminent police officers interact in these sessions.
Let me introduce the eminent speaker of today. Today morning we have a very well-known and retired police officer Shri Karnal Singh, who has served with distinction in various important positions. He's a postgraduate in computer sciences and an MBA in finance. He is a retired IPS officer who was conferred the President's Police Medal as well Police Medal for Distinguished Service as the police medals for meritorious services. He superannuated in 2018 from the Enforcement Directorate. He computerized the functioning of Delhi Police and also introduced technology in the Enforcement Directorate by establishing six cyber labs in the country.
Shri Karnal Singh also represented India in various foreign delegations. I must tell you that he is not only an eminent erudite scholar and speaker. He was also awarded the distinction of being the best sportsman and the best athlete awards in the National Police Academy. In the Enforcement Directorate, he supervised investigations in important money laundering cases. He is the author of a book titled Batla House, an encounter that shook the nation at that time. He was also responsible for overseeing a number of bomb blasts cases in Delhi including the investigation of Uphaar cinema tragedy with intro.
After the introduction of the speaker, let me now say a few words about the subject of today's podcast under the prevention of money laundering act. What is money laundering act? Now money laundering act is defined as any process, any activity which is connected with the proceeds of crime including its concealment. Not only concealment, in fact including its acquisition, including its possession, including projection this money as untainted money, that also come. The unique feature of PMLA is that it does not operate in isolation. It is intrinsically linked to other scheduled offenses listed under this act.
The scheduled offenses relate to serious crimes under various legislations and acts such as IPC, then the Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act, Prevention of Corruption Act, Arms Act etc. So for example, cases of corruption, cases of bribery, cases of fraud, cases of forgery, cases of arms, cases relating to terrorism financing and narcotics are treated as predicate offenses under the act. When such offenses generate illicit proceeds of money, the Prevention of Money Laundering Act comes into play. In fact I'll say that the Enforcement Directorate and the investigations are an arm of India's fight against organized crime and corruption.
The Enforcement Directorate faces multiple challenges which Shri Karnal Singh will elaborate. I'll just touch some points as an introduction. For example, tracing the money trail becomes extremely difficult when funds move rapidly across the borders. Challenges also face in volume of cases because of the number of officers available with the Enforcement Directorate. The complicated judicial process you see also adds to the problems which are faced by the ED in such cases. Then the convictions under PMLA are comparatively low due to lengthy trials. Now challenges in admissibility of evidence and frequent legal appeals also cause problems.
I would like to mention in particular the difficulties faced by the Enforcement Directorate in learning, in handling cases involving global terrorists. Since I have been dealing with terrorism a lot, so I like to mention few words. Terrorist network actually use very sophisticated hawala and underground channels. Then there's a rapid movement of the funds leaving behind very little formal evidence. With these words, which I feel basically are the challenges, there were many more challenges which Singh might have faced during his tenure in the Enforcement Directorate. I now request Shri Karnal Singh ji to elaborate on the subjects of today's podcast, that is challenges faced by ED in combating money laundering. He will gives you some practical instances and elaborate. Karnal, it is up to you now. Go ahead.
Okay. Okay. Thank you sir. See, the first, when I was director ED, after two three months I got a call from Nripendra Misra ji who was the principal secretary to Prime Minister, saying that one of the minister in the government in the cabinet meeting was discussing about the Enforcement Directorate, that ED is not performing well, they're not handling the case properly. So he asked me what I have to say. I said sir, he's right. So he was bit taken away. Instead of defending my unit, I'm saying the unit is not performing well. So then he asked what is the reason? So you just mentioned about the manpower. So I told him my sanctioned strength of the Enforcement Directorate is 2068, and I'm talking of this in 2015, and my present strength is only 531. What do you expect?
So he said, then what is the solution? So I said sir, there are two things which I want to submit to you. The one is that there was a Vineet Narain judgment of Supreme Court in which the Supreme Court said that to attract talent in the CBI and Enforcement Directorate there should be incentive in pay. Oh. The CBI got that incentive but ED has not got that incentive. So I'd request that you give us the equivalent incentive to ED also. That was number one. Number two, I said that our selection from joint director and above is through CVC which comes faster, but the selection deputy director and below for deputation is coming through UPSC, and which in a year gives 8, 9 people only to us. Now in Central Bureau of Investigation the selection before DSP and below, which are of the equivalent rank in ED one can say, is done through DOPT. So why in our case it should not be done through DOPT? So he asked me proposal. So proposal was sent after much struggle, of course, in the expenditure part of the revenue department of the finance ministry. Ultimately both of them were approved and the manpower started increasing. So that was the first hurdle we could cross. Today all the posts have been filled. Oh good. State and Enforcement Directorate has given a proposal for increasing the strength of the ED.
Secondly sir, at that time I faced the situation like we collect lot of digital evidences. Now these digital evidences we were sending to CFSL for examination and for giving us feedback. Now strangely we were getting the report somewhere between 6 months to two years. Now this is a very long period of response. If we are investigating something, some digital evidences, and if we have to interrogate people and if we don't have analysis then it becomes very difficult to analyze. Therefore, I sent the proposal to the government for establishing in-house cyber labs. Oh, CFSL otherwise deals with all states also, I think, is it? They deal with all states also. So is overloaded. So then we were able to get analysis done within a day and it was very useful, so that the pace of investigation is faster.
Now sir, you also mentioned about conviction rate, and this is being mentioned almost everywhere that the ED conviction rate is very very poor. Now as a police officer sir, you are aware conviction rate is calculated based on the number of cases decided. Okay, not other than number of cases investigated. Not the number of cases investigated or number of cases stand for trial. Now this calculation which is being done at various places is number of cases resulted into conviction divided by number of cases sent for trial. Oh, wrong calculation.
Now sir, we had once this our annual day where revenue secretary himself, who was in the finance ministry, in front of the chief guest, in the press, he raised the same issue. He said that it is not doing well, their conviction rate is zero. So thereafter, after he finished, I got up. I told that I should not have been speaking after the revenue secretary, but I must clarify something, because the press is sitting here, other people are sitting here, so they must know the facts. I said I agree there is no conviction but there's no acquittal either. And then I mentioned that our accused are generally high-profile people who are able to get the delay in the investigation by approaching the court, and they get orders on the drop of the coin. So it is not easy investigation when you are doing investigation against the politicians, against the people who are money people, who are able to get the best advocates in the country, approaching the courts. So of course the revenue secretary later on told me that he was not aware.
Sir, the latest annual report which ED has brought out mentions that have decided till now, till the report, and out of that 19 cases has resulted into conviction. My goodness. So it is at 19 divided by 23 multiplied by 100. So conviction rate is more than 80% sir. So that is one area where I keep explaining people at various forums. Even on TV sometimes this issue is raised, and when I'm sitting there I explain what is the conviction rate, and many people don't understand. As a police officer sir, you will understand what is the meaning of conviction rate. Okay.
Then issue comes because these people who are involved in money laundering not only do money laundering within the country, they do money laundering involving various countries. For example, sir, we take this AgustaWestland case where the bribe started from Italy. It went to Mauritius. From Mauritius sir, one part came to India, but the most of the part of this, I should say more than 90%, went to Dubai. From Dubai it was mixed up in various other accounts, then a part sent to Switzerland, part sent to Singapore. Now interestingly in Mauritius, the bank which was existing at that time — Mauritius had the fly by night banks also, so there is a bank today, tomorrow there's no bank. My god man. And there's no record available. So this was one of the case where the bank was a fly by night bank. So we could not get the record from the bank. We could construct only, the money started from Italy, where it had gone, and then connecting dots in Dubai and other places.
Now in a foreign country we send letter of request or letter rogatory to our courts. Now sir, whether it is a letter rogatory or whether it's extradition process for any criminal or accused, it is a political cum judicial process. It is never a pure judicial process. That country examine us whether this demand is genuine or not. Whether there is a concept of dual criminality, that is, it should be a crime in India and it should be a crime in another country also, only then they will execute LR or they will execute the extradition request. So first it is examined bureaucratically whether they should execute it, and if they decide to execute it, they go to the court to get the orders. And in most of the countries court give opportunity to other party, and the process goes to, if the judicial process starts, it goes till supreme court sir, till their supreme court.
And if you take for example sir, Vijay Mallya case. Now this, even the Supreme Court of that country decided that he has to be extradited and issued the order. Now only part remaining was that the home secretary of the UK to issue orders of his extradition. So it was only executive order, judicial process is over. Now sir, four five years have passed. I should say it is almost 8 years have passed sir. They're not issuing orders. Unofficially, we know that he has given an application for asylum and we have nothing more to listen from them. Oh goodness.
So this hurdle comes sir. You have also talked about the intelligence sharing between the countries, because this is very very important. So there is Egmont Group which is internationally placed, and it has the financial intelligence units of all the countries as the members. 155 members are there. India is also member of the Egmont Group. Yeah. Now they share intelligence with each other. Sometimes you get very good intelligence. Of course there's a bar that this information, being intelligence, cannot be used as a piece of evidence. We have to work on it. So this is one way where there's international coordination.
Second is the Financial Action Task Force, and the Financial Action Task Force basically formulate the policies about the money laundering and terror financing. They have got 40 recommendations which should be implemented. Law should be made according to them. One minute. This task force is a national or international? It is international. It was started in 1989. Oh, I see. And it has today 39 members. Out of that 37 are country, two are the groups. But there is a mechanism to involve all the countries. So they have nine other groups like FATF. We call them FATF style regional bodies. I see.
Now these nine groups, like India is also member of two such groups. One is Asia-Pacific Group and another is a Eurasia Group. Around 180 countries of the world are member of one or other of these groups. So though FATF has a minimum like 39 members only, but one can say all 180 countries which are members of various FATF style bodies, they indirectly participate in FATF. So FATF formulate the policies, gives the recommendation to the countries, and also apart from the 40 recommendations it has 11 outcomes. 11 outcomes are the effectiveness.
Like sir, Pakistan, what it was doing, it has formulated the laws which were required to be made against money laundering and terror financing, but it was not implementing them properly. Oh I see. So though Pakistan is not member of FATF directly, it is member of Asia-Pacific Group. But there is a process of mutual evaluation. Each country undergoes the process of mutual evaluation after around 10 years or so, and mutual evaluation is done by the representative of different countries. Pakistan mutual evaluation, which was got done by Asia-Pacific Group, was produced before the FATF. There we raised the objection that Pakistan is not implementing the laws. I see.
So what was that said? United Nations Security Council resolution 1267 is there, which says that the terror financing of al-Qaeda and related entities and other entities, if it is declared by United Nations to be banned, then their fund should be seized in any of these countries. So this Lashkar has a charity organization which is called Jamat-ud-Dawa. Jamat-ud-Dawa sir, that is a face, sort of, you know, face group. Front organization one can say. The Jamat-ud-Dawa, now when the ban was laid down by the United Nations Security Council, then they changed, they put another organization in front. Now they are basically front, they are charity organizations. They have hospitals, they have schools, but they fund the Lashkar also sir. So Pakistan had not seized their funds. So we raised this issue. I was there in the FATF meeting that time. We raised the issue against Pakistan, and Pakistan that time was put on the grey list.
It is basically some naming and shaming, putting in grey list, and there is another serious list, blacklist. If some country is put in the grey list, then internationally it is considered to be rogue country, and then the financial transactions with such country becomes difficult for the other countries also. So these countries suffer economically, and therefore they take care of that, they have to implement those things. But till the time mutual evaluation is not done, they are free to do whatever they are doing. Once mutual evaluation is there, they are under some sort of problems, we say, is the international community.
But international cooperation is not very very forthcoming sir. It takes huge time. Sometimes we don't get information. To this extent, in one case there was a Hassan Ali case, was in the Supreme Court sir, and this SIT on black money was formed on that case. This Hassan Ali supposed to have, sir, we are not sure, around 60,000 K in Swiss banks. Yes. And what he did is, in one of the transactions he wanted to purchase a hotel there, and then a meeting was held in the bank of the purchaser, who was from the Switzerland, and of this Hassan Ali, and bank told the other party that he has sufficient funds in bank. But sir, when we asked the information, we were not getting any information. Oh I see. And then what he did is sir, after he siphoned off money from this bank to some other bank, then we got information from one bank. So then again letter of rogatory one sent. It's almost, when I joined ED as director the case was even at that time, and it is pending even now, though Hassan Ali has died by now. So the information has not come still from there. So far. So that is a problem of international cooperation which you mentioned rightly sir.
And there are other issues sir, challenges which are faced. Like for example, when we search at certain places, there are digital evidences which may be of different format. Even the bank's information comes in the different formats. One bank has one format, another bank has another format, and there are much information which is on paper which is not even digitized. Now how to collate all this information and put in the common format? I see. In India we do not have such tools, though in the foreign country like USA they have made such tools, very costly tools they are there. Then lack of analytical tools sir. We have in India, we have not produced even a single analytical tool to do financial analysis. I see. They're all procured from the foreign country. I see. Except SFIO, Serious Fraud Investigation Office, who have got some tools in their lab, no other organization, whether it is CBI or any other organization, has those tools. So that is another area. Day before yesterday I was in Rashtriya Raksha University. I told them, why don't you start this project? So that the country gets benefited out of such projects.
Then sir, there are concept of shell companies. Yeah. Which are used mostly in all the money laundering cases. And what happens is sir, when there are interbank transactions, suppose there's a transaction between State Bank of India and another account is suppose in HDFC bank, then these interbank transactions are recorded by the RBI. So RBI is a record of interbank transactions. Yeah. Yeah. But intra bank transactions RBI doesn't have the record. If the one branch of the State Bank of India sends to another State Bank of India, then the RBI doesn't have got the record. Now to check the shell companies we require end to end transactions. If end to end transactions, we can find out. Why, it's within the government, I say, instead of bank, State Bank, it is said the Reserve Bank has given duty, then why the Government of India, it cannot do? Sir, long back I had given a proposal of a search engine to be made in the RBI. Yes sir. That's what, approved by PMO. A meeting was called in the finance ministry. RBI officers were called. Everybody was called, but till date it has not been made. Oh my goodness.
This is within our country. Outside of your, one other point before we proceed further. Yes sir. You very beautifully mentioned about the front organizations in the case of the Pakistan operated, but what about this front organization in certain, you know, certain ideologically, not only I'm saying ideologically, of course even the Islamic group is ideologically motivated, other ideologically operating. I'm talking not in terms of directly leftists or rightist or anything, any ideologically motivated group. They also operate through the front organization. Where the facing problem?
Sir, there are two things. One is when we talk of terrorist related issues, they have front organizations. But when we talk of these ideologically, yeah, yeah, yeah, they are generally getting FCRA. Oh I see. I see. And that's why the government has made the FCRA bit strict. There is amendment in law, like for example before giving permission for FCRA, government does the checks from where the money is coming and all. Money can come only to one account in the State Bank of India, one cannot get in any account. And you cannot mix Indian money into that money, and the purpose keeps on monitoring. A number of organizations were taking money from abroad and working on their ideology and sometimes they were opposing our projects. Oh. So that has been taken care of by the government of India. Oh, I see.
Who terrorist organizations becoming little more difficult? Terrorist organizations, like sir, let me about terrorist organization I explain sir. For example Lashkar I talked in Pakistan. I'm just talking first about the Pakistan sir. Then Jaish-e-Mohammed also has a Al Rahmat Trust. It is a front organization which collects that. And sir, there is a one International Islamic Relief Organization which is today known as International Organization for Relief, Welfare and Development. It collects fund. In Islam there's a concept of zakat where they donate a part of their income as a gesture for helping the poor, helping the people who are not having enough resources. So what they do is that they give it to these organizations. The International Islamic Relief Organization was providing funds to al-Qaeda. Sir, I mean indirectly. Even this Islamic organization ideological motivated, indirectly or directly you may say, right.
I was, when I referred, I was saying same about the Maoists working in certain areas, and we are dealing with them no doubt effectively now to a great extent through our arms battalions and all, but I was saying about funding of such organization. Let us say, you know, CPIML has been at one time said that they have been funding the Maoist group which are working in Chhattisgarh, which are working in your area, where we have now started having such a, we'll wipe it out and all. But I was just thinking that these are also ideologically motivated. Is there any restriction, or I mean something which we can control? As an Islamic organization, I get your, that they have central front organization, and the problem is inter country also. In this case I'm talking about the leftist terrorist group.
Sir, if you see Naxals. Yeah, that's. There most of the money is coming through extortion. Through? Through extortion. Extortion, all that I know, local extortion and. The protection money, yeah. So what they do is, if any government gives any contract to anybody, okay, so they take money from him, whether he's a government contractor or whatever he is. Oh. Even the beedi leaves, when they are transported from their area, they collect money even from the farmers. Lot of money they do it. Previously they were connected, found to be connected through Manipur side to China, that was also there. Oh. They do not have any direct charity organization. Oh, that's what I know. So that's all protection money etc. We know that organization which have got certain rights, they are working for even development, say anything, road building etc. Those organization do pay protection money to the next group, otherwise they'll be eliminated and all. You're right. That means otherwise there's no such, I mean organization has such fundamental. When it is a fundamental organization like Islamic, they have got foreign money, but in this is local groups. Local also sir, but there are certain urban Naxals which we say, who are sympathizers to Naxalism, and they provide support otherwise. They provide propaganda support, they provide support like giving shelters, provide supports in legal battles. So that is also there sir.
Yeah, so proceed further. I was just asking this question in between. I will not interrupt your thought process. Go ahead sir. You are talking about other hurdles which you're facing.
So the another area is when you talk of the conviction rate or speedy trial. Now one thing has come positively in this BNSS, Bharatiya, which has replaced CrPC. So there's a timeline now given, and for example the cognizance of the case has to be taken within 14 days. Now previously discharge applications were filed by one accused will file, once it is rejected then second accused will file. Now in the new setup all the accused have to file at one go, they cannot file one after another. Then trial in absentia is also a concept. Now if 90 days the person doesn't appear in the court, then trial can start in his absentia. The judgment, if the court has reserved the judgment, then it has to pass the judgment within 30 days. Previously there was no time limit. That is one, the positive step has come, but it has to be seen how it will be implemented, because the advocates, they are master in delaying the cases sir.
Then sir, another problem comes in the investigation itself. Multiple agencies investigation. Like the same ED takes the, we have the schedule offense and then we have the money laundering offense. So at least when the ED comes into play, at least there are two agencies. One is the predicate investigating agency and another is the Enforcement Directorate. Like in one may be CBI, one may be ED. But sir, in some cases there could be SFIO also coming into picture, the income tax may be coming into picture. And if any agency conducts raid, collects evidence, the sharing becomes very difficult. Oh. So there is a lack of coordination between the agencies within the country itself, and they don't share what they are doing with each other.
So I had given a proposal sir about that evidences, there should be no deficiency for evidences also. Like if any agency collects the evidence, it has to deposit there. They can put a bar that they should not share with so and so, clearcut bar, but otherwise it should be available to all the investigating agencies, and that agency will be produced in the courts whenever it is required. Second is that when these different agencies work, like CBI is working, ED is working, they sometimes work for cross purposes. So I had also suggested a concept of nodal agency which exist in USA, or lead agencies, or I should say one of the agency will take a lead and others will follow that. Now this lead agency is to be decided by somebody in the government. So this proposal was accepted and NSA was made the lead officer who will decide which agency will lead, but somehow it has not become functional till today.
Then sir, investigation by ED also has sometimes issues. What they start doing is, instead of investigating only the proceeds of crime, they start investigating the whole business. Oh. And with the result many business gets failed because of the ED actions. So that means that there has to be some controlling factor about the investigation process.
Then section 50, wherein the person is called for the interrogation or questioning. Now in CrPC there were two different provisions, one for a witness and one for an accused. Like witness will be called under section 160 CrPC and accused will be called under section 41 CrPC. Correct. But here there is only one section 50 for both. The constitution article 20 part 3 provides protection to a person to be silent about his criminal activities. But section 50 doesn't say you are interrogating the accused. Oh. So the person is bound to tell the truth. So it violates the article. The courts are not very clear about how to deal with this particular situation. Now ED sometimes arrest people based on, he is not cooperating, he's not telling the truth. But the question is, what is the truth? What ED officer feels is the truth? What the person who is appearing is telling the truth? So that is also a problem area I should say.
Then there's a lot of discretion available, wide discretion is required at this stages. For PMLA only ED can investigate the cases. 268 officers, you cannot take up all the cases in the country, all the predicate offenses in the country. So you take up some selected cases. That means there's a choice which case to be taken up, which case not to be taken. And this discretion, to control this discretion the ED requires a manual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. CBI has a manual. Sir, I have got the manual drafted by appointing some retired CBI officers. But that manual was not finalized till my time. But it has not seen the daylight till today. But if we have to improve the functioning of the ED, to train the ED officials to know their limits and their boundaries, we require a proper manual for Enforcement Directorate. That is another area sir which I feel, one can say it is a challenge, but it is also the control on that.
Then there is the issue of manpower and technology which I touched upon previously also. ED certainly is short of manpower today sir. Not only short of manpower, the manpower requires to be trained in financial analysis. So this is very important, and technological capacity which is very very important and which is lacking.
Then there are various other challenges also sir. Yeah. One is a judicial challenge, because in many cases there's a judicial intervention, rightly or wrongly, not to proceed further in the case, in the investigation, like that they are there. Then the delay in trial, that is also a challenge. Then there are political and bureaucratic challenges also sir. Sometimes the people try to interfere through politicians. Now it depends upon the officer sir how he proceeds thereafter. Bureaucratic challenges comes in form of transfer, who will come in ED and who will not come in ED. Suppose officer is doing very well and he's transferred out from the ED, so that is also some challenge. I talked about the delay in foreign evidences.
One more thing ED does is makes large number of accused. Large number of accused. I said. Like in a case there will be 200 accused. Accused. Yes. So some people could have been made witness, which would have strengthened the case. Now 200 accused, 300 accused, we know as a police officer what will happen. Impossible. So that case will linger on for a longer period sir. So this is what I had to say sir.
I know I'll not interfere much, but I mean I have interfered here and there and asked some questions in your thought process. I'll only ask one or two clarification. Any judicial reforms, immediate, I'm not saying long drawn out judicial reform in our country which is very difficult, because you have explained at length how it becomes intercountry problems, how it, number of accused coming, how the bureaucratic changes and all this becomes a problem. I mean you have given at length beautifully what are the problem faced by the ED. But as a very seasoned and eminent police officer, do you think that any judicial reforms in our country, I will not elaborate judicial reform, which immediately can be probably implemented? Any set of judicial reform as far as the Enforcement Directorate is concerned, not that the judicial reform if they impinge on the legal powers of the states, that's difficult. Any judicial reform which are easily possible to be undertaken so that the working of the ED particularly becomes a little easier? It is very difficult process as you said, but little such judicial reform, have you any in mind?
Sir, one I should say legal reform, in the sense that what is happening today sir, this PMLA, there is overall supervision one can say is of the adjudicating authority, because everything one does in the ED reports to adjudicating authority. For example, attachment is done. Reason to believe that this property is involved in the proceeds of crime is to be sent in a sealed cover to the adjudicating authority, not to the court. Oh, I see. That's it. That's it. In a criminal offense, it is a criminal court which sees the overall what is happening. That's right. That's right. These all these reports, instead of going to the adjudicating authority, should go to the criminal court which has to try the case. Oh yes. Because the criminal court is not aware of the case unless a person is arrested. I agree. So it can be in the civil court also. The adjudicating authority is a civil court basically sir. But the criminal court which decides the case, before whom the accused is produced. Now when accused is arrested, the reason to believe again sent to the adjudicating authority, it's not to the criminal court which will give bail or which will not give bail, or not the remand of the case.
And I think this should be, as you rightly said, this is a process which can probably done without much difficulty in our own country as you said, because in the case of such cases which do not require as a criminal defense or something, that's a different. But as far as the civil court jurisdiction is there, then at least some certain things can be decided by the civil court straightway in such cases. You're right. Anything else you like to elaborate sir? Sir, thank you. Thank you.
I like to thank you very much, very very much dear Shri for having, I mean, given some time to us to elaborate on this very important subject. Many reasons you have already indicated, like judicial challenges, admissibility of foreign evidence, then which weaken the ED's functioning and cases in the court of law. You have also said about the limited manpower and a number of cases. You have also talked a lot about technological capacities available, and a number of suggestion which you have made have been implemented. I mean it was a great pleasure to hear from you and it was really really practical. In certain cases we people who have been in the police maybe not knowing that much, because we always say what is happening, what is happening, because we are not functioning in that particular area. Therefore we are not aware of such things, but it was a beautiful, very elaborate, critical as well as crystal clear analysis. We thank you for having spared your time to come here, and look forward to such interaction with you in future also. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Grateful. Thank you. Thank you.
