AWPO & Veterans: Bridging Military Experience with Civilian Opportunities – NISSMAT Podcast

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you to NISSMAT's podcast today on a very important subject, which is from service to civilian: empowering veterans through the Army Welfare Placement Organization. The subject resonates deeply with our nation's ethos: the seamless transition of our brave military personnel into civilian life. After years of unwavering service, dedication and sacrifice, our armed forces veterans possess an unparalleled skill set, discipline, and leadership qualities. But how do we ensure that these invaluable assets are effectively integrated into our civilian workforce?

We are honored to have a distinguished guest, Major General Ajay Chauhan, who heads the Army Welfare Placement Organization, a pivotal entity dedicated to this very cause. He's a decorated officer, having been awarded the Shere Chakra and the Sena Medal. At the Army Welfare Placement Organization, Major General Chauhan, the managing director of the organization, is actively involved in facilitating second career opportunities for army veterans, who often retire at a relatively young age, between 35 to 40 years. He emphasizes the invaluable skills, discipline, leadership, and integrity that veterans bring to the workforce, and he works to bridge the gap between the military experience and the requirements of civilian industries. He has been instrumental in forging partnerships with various organizations, including hospitality and educational sectors, to create meaningful employment opportunities for ex-servicemen and their families. I begin the podcast by asking General Chauhan as to what does he see as the most significant challenge faced by veterans transitioning to civilian careers, and how is AWPO addressing them?

Yeah, firstly, Major Ahluwalia, thank you very much for inviting me on this podcast, on your show, and indeed grateful, and I wish your series of podcasts all the very best right in the beginning. Thank you very much for highlighting the aspect of AWPO. So you are aware that the Indian army veterans retire with invaluable experience, and these experiences are not just, you know, mere experience which they gain. It is under extremely, extremely challenging conditions: discipline, leadership under high pressure, project execution and crisis management. These are the skill sets which they come from.

Now when I talk of challenges, yes, the first challenge when a person retires, you and me will agree, is the mindset. You know, you have stayed in an organization for over 20, 25, 30 years, and he's got a very, very strict, very disciplined, straightforward routine. And here you come in straightaway into a civil domain where you are just not aware of what is actually happening, unless you have worked on the same in the last year of your moving into the transition stage. So that is the first, and the mindset is a very, very important aspect. Second is that recognition of the transferable or transformation of military skills into the, I would say, civilian job roles. So their skills — if I talk in whole lot of skills, I'm sure in the due course of a conversation we will surely cover those skills which they carry with them.

Third aspect which I would also like to highlight here is the cultural shift: a structured military environment to a more fluid and a commercially, you know, directed civilian workspace. So this is another area which I feel, you know, they find a challenge with, our ex-servicemen. Next aspect, you know, the civilian certification and licensing. While in the army we undergo large amount of courses, however, when you go outside, there is a requirement for anything you require. Even if I go for a job today after having served for 40 years, they will ask my high school certificate and a graduation certificate and those degrees. I think recognizing the work done within the organization — I think that is somewhere there is a gap between us and the outside world.

Yeah. Sorry, how do you bridge this gap? You recognize the gap, but how do you bridge the gap?

You see, for bridging this gap, we have this — the army thought very long ago to establish an organization like AWPO. So once the AWPO — you are aware, I'll just highlight the mandate — the organization is mandated for providing second career opportunities to our army veterans, people who are retiring. It is not only restricted to that; in addition, the widows of the martyrs, the dependents, the wards — all these it encompasses. We have a large canvas to provide, and how do we bridge this gap is in the connect which we make, our organization makes, with the corporate world or worlds outside. For this, my organization became the Army Welfare Placement Organization in 2010, and we have a pan-India network. There are 17 regional offices essentially covering the entire length and breadth of this country. Every state, for that matter, is covered by my organization, and we work absolutely on the corporate lines, where the performance of each and every member of AWPO is judged by the output he gives. So our outreach — we have a very, very aggressive outreach program to reach out to the corporate, whether it is corporate, whether it's government sector, semi-government sector, and also when we connect with these organizations, we definitely explain as to what does a soldier carry with him in terms of skill sets, apart from the experience.

Yeah. The skill sets that are most wanted between the veterans and the civil society — which is the skill set that you find is the most wanted one?

You see, as far as the skill sets which you have talked about, today leadership skills is one of the most important skill sets. Discipline and work ethics is another aspect which they look at. Teamwork — whole life we have been into this. Today on the television, whenever you see a military action photograph, there is not a single person; they always, all minimum two people are visible, and you being from the armed forces, you're fully aware we work in buddy systems. So teamwork is a very, very important area; our basic fabric is made of teamwork. Next is the problem solving skills, the aspect of high tolerance for ambiguity, and area VUCA-ready, you know — that is also a very, very important aspect which I wanted to showcase here. VUCA is volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. So the tolerance for ambiguity is at a very, very high level, because during operations, the decision making ability of our service person is very high when there is lack of orders. Therefore these are the skill sets — these are, I would say, the military attributes — which actually are transferable into the corporate or the civil world.

At the junior level of the armed forces, people are used to taking orders and they function or respond to orders, whereas in the civil life people are expected to take independent decisions to complete a job. How do you bridge this gap?

Yeah. As far as — yeah, that is definitely one of the aspects which require a lot of training, and before we actually provide them this kind of insight or counseling before they go, and also I tell the corporate — you see, we are very, very aggressive as far as the reaching out to the corporate system, and once we are in touch with them, we highlight these aspects and definitely we do not hide, you know, the weaknesses. Yes, you're right. In the army, at the subordinate level, they take orders, but there they have to carry out a kind of an orientation program. So once the orientation program with a particular corporate is carried out, we insist that these aspects should be covered while, you know, orienting them, so that they are aware, and once, you know, it is just a, I would say, a take-off empowerment from where they will be able to actually take off. So this we insist to the corporate, to give them this kind of skill set.

Yeah. You see, in the armed forces we have a lot of disciplines. You have mechanical engineers, you have different — you have people from the signals, you have people from the telecom industry, you know, the telecommunication thing, but majority of our workforce in the armed forces comes from the infantry, and in the market or in the corporate world, it is sometimes felt that the retired veterans are good only for security jobs. How do you change this mindset in the civilian world?

Yeah, that is — the moment, you see, as far as the security is concerned, the moment you put on a uniform, any person putting on a uniform, he is considered to be fit for security. I think there needs to be a change in the mindset in the environment. Today in the armed forces itself, you yourself mentioned, there are — if I divide the kind of people who are there, or the troops who are there — there are three major verticals: the non-technical ones, the technical ones, and then the operation and logistics. Now these are the three major verticals I divide my armed forces, or the army, in. And as far as the first part is concerned, the non-technical — mind you, this is a jargon I'm using it, but most of them have become technical today. So they are empowered within the army over a period of time, in their own service, along with their rank. Before every rank they undergo an upgradation course in the army itself. So I, for example, would have done almost 12 to 13 courses within the army itself. So that is where the experience comes in.

As far as the armored, infantry you talked about — and I would rather include artillery as well — so these are the people who have, I would say, upskilled themselves on the technical as well and in non-technical domains. They're good for administration. They're good for HR. They're good for crisis management. They're good for project management. Various courses are there in the army, or in the DGR, the Director General Resettlement. They provide a large amount of courses where they are upskilled. So this is how their skill sets are developed, and as I mentioned, as he travels within the army over a period of time, he is able to upskill himself into various domains, whether it is technical or non-technical, and therefore they are the right fits today. If I may say, if I talk of officers, people are MBAs, people are PhDs, they have gone into education. So any sector you take, you will find one of them today.

Now I can quote very good examples in the semiconductor domain: an armored corps officer, today as a colonel, who's heading, by vice president, in the semiconductor domains itself. So there are wonderful success stories of these officers of the armored, infantry and artillery — I talked of the non-technical ones — who have done exceedingly well, and I think things are changing. People are by and large understanding the skill set which the personnels carry with them, and hopefully, better days — the corporate will see that there is better talent available within the armed forces apart from security.

So how do you go about, as AWPO, educating the corporate world as to the skill sets that are available within the armed forces in various technical trades or otherwise, and where you could use these people? How do you go about bridging this gap? Because I feel that this gap needs to be bridged, and unless bridged properly, the numbers that will be taken up in the corporate world would be relatively low. Right?

So as far as bridging the gap with the corporate is concerned, or, I would say, creating visibility of the skill set of the personnels, of the veterans — one is that, you know, we have a website called xrmyinoy.com, and this website is state-of-art. It has been upgraded. It has got registration for employers, for employees, and we have a, you know, corporate presentation also incorporated into it; if the corporate wants to see, they're most welcome. Then the next is the outreach program. When we carry out outreach with the corporate, we register them with us and then we give them a proper overview as to what all skill sets we have with us. This is either through video conferencing or physical, and all my 17 regional offices which are existing today — starting from Jammu, Jalandhar, Ambala, Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Pune, you know, Bengaluru, Vandam, and every state — so all of them have got that outreach within the regional areas. Okay? So they are the ones who carry out briefings of the HR of the corporate or any other domain, and that is how we try and highlight the skill sets.

Of the regional offices that you have, do they wait for people to call them, or they go out themselves?

You see, I mentioned we have a very, very aggressive outreach, you know, parameters, and definitely it is being monitored at some, at one place, so they have to go. No, we don't wait for, you know, people to reach out to us. We are on, and we have explored the social media. Today we are on LinkedIn, we are on all digital platforms, you name it and we are there — WhatsApp, whether it is Facebook or Instagram. So we are presently in all these domains, and the regional officers have got their mandate to reach out. As we speak, we are already in touch with three companies getting into memorandum of understanding. So in fact, today morning I had a meeting right in my office highlighting the skill sets and giving them an overview of our veterans. So our collaboration actually begins with outreach. We proactively engage HR heads, industry bodies and CSR wings of companies to educate them about the value of hiring veterans. Once interest is generated, we share tailored candidates' profiles based on the job roles and required competencies.

Just to sort of ask a very pertinent question: let's say you place a hundred veterans. How many of them would you say have become successful in the job that they've taken?

Yeah, if we have placed about 100 veterans — now it is between the employer and the employee. Once — the job has to suit the individual also, so it depends as to how good are the working conditions. Yeah. So I think the employer has to give some time to the veterans to get adjusted to the environment. So if you say that if you have placed about 100 of them, definitely they stay there. Rather, I wouldn't say that, you know, they move out of an organization unless the working conditions are hard, they have a very, very harsh HR or a manager. So otherwise, they are matured people and they stay there.

Yeah. One of the things that I've noticed in the corporate world generally is the HR manager is in the age bracket of 30, 35 years old, you know, all the youngsters there, and when the veterans — especially in the officer cadre, when they retire, they are at a much older profile — they find it sometimes difficult to adjust between the age groups that they are functioning in. Some of them adjust; some of them also find it very difficult to adjust. So what would you advise them, how to?

Yeah, you're right. People who get adjusted are the successful ones. Definitely, I think this aspect even we tell our veterans, because today outside, especially in the corporate, there is a younger generation which is at the higher level, and they are moving out at a slightly later time frame into the corporate sector. So I do tell — we do, you know, counsel them on establishing good rapport with the corporate leadership. They do understand, but my advice would be that, you know, I think egos and ranks and all, they have to give it a thought. So outside, even if a younger boss is there, there's no harm, because both of you are working for the same organization. So I feel that there shouldn't be any ego hassles with respect to the functioning, and the personnels or the officers are very, very accustomed to this kind of an environment inside when they work, because they are very good leaders at a young age. So same thing they copy it outside. This is the advice I give them: that yes, you have to shed your ego and work hard and party harder.

What are the changes that you've brought into AWPO since you took charge?

You see, it is a joint effort. If I talk only of mine, it'll be incorrect. I have very, very eminent predecessors before me, and it's an organization which has been built over the years, and a lot of hard work has been — so everyone puts his own bit. And as far as I'm concerned, yeah, technology has been in the forefront today, and unless you be with the technology, you will be expelled outside. Therefore, embracing technology has been one of the major areas which I have focused. Establishing relations or networking with the corporate has been another aspect. We have upgraded, or we have created a new website of AWPO, which has got multi-functions including counseling, including resume, including training. It also has the corporate, I would say, registration facility. It provides you advertisements. It provides you coaching for government jobs. It provides you test samping section; there is an employment section; there is entrepreneurship section. So I have focused on developing this website, because it's one tool which can be used anywhere and anytime. That is one.

Second, I have focused on the placement, on the, you know, industry-specific skilling programs, entrepreneurship — these are another aspect which I have highlighted. We are developing training programs, and we are looking at, through the corporate, we have tried to empower our people in the niche skill sets like drone pilots. We have created solar panel technicians, almost 500 of them. We have a team of almost 100 drone pilots available across the country. E-vehicles is another area, I think, which is in tremendous amount of demand today. Tally accounting system, creating cloud kitchens. So making entrepreneurs also has been one of the focus areas of mine, and I'm happy to share that there are some very good success stories of people who have been able to open restaurants and started earning, making the livelihood and better quality of life.

Then, you know, in the government sector, in the coaching sector I talked about today, the armed forces are given reservation in various central government examinations and at the state government levels also. However, our personnel are not able to clear those examinations because of valid reasons. They probably have not got time to study at that point in time. So we have started coaching for government jobs, and I'm happy to share that we have a very good success rate. Rather, we have trained almost 1,600 ex-servicemen, and about 46% success rate we have been able to achieve. As far as placement of, or empowering, widows is concerned, in those areas also digital literacy is one area, I think, which is very, very important and needs a focus. So those areas we have also gone in, through CSR, corporate social responsibility, to corporate. So we have trained widows, and this year we placed approximately over 300 widows into various sectors.

So, you know, placement has been a major, major focus of mine, as to how to enhance the satisfaction level of my ex-servicemen or the veterans. That has been — I think I'm very fortunate that I have a wonderful team with AWPO with me, pan India, and it's a joint effort. No managing director of the Army Welfare Placement Organization can't do a thing; it requires extremely, extremely, you know, compassion, I would say, or a compassionate mindset, and also a continuous, you know, focus in that direction. So I'm happy to share that we have been able to place over 16,000 jawans. So I have a satisfaction level of approximately 33% this year, which is overall 37% enhancement. In the officers, we placed 450 officers this year. If 1,200 retire, get into reemployment 900 — out of 900, about 450 officers being placed in 2024, I think it's a good growth, I consider.

Thank you. The officers will be going into what job roles?

Yeah. This aspect also I want to highlight. Good, you asked me this question. I talked about the three verticals: the non-technical, technical and operational logistics. They are going into multiple roles. They are going as administrators. They are going into management of education institutions. They are going into manufacturing sector. They are going into construction and, you know, engineering sector. Even in IT, officers have gone. So it is not restricted now to what you mentioned, that I'm restricted towards security. I think we have a very good database, I would say, or a skilled human national resource which needs to be recognized, and it will create a win-win situation even for the corporates, if I may say so.

How do you differentiate yourself from the DGR, from the Director General Resettlement?

DGR is — yes, it's the Director General Resettlement. They are more focused towards, I would say, resettlement courses. Today DGR provides you very good resettlement courses for JCOs and jawans and even for officers in various domains, whether it is IT sector, whether it is supply chain management, whether it is administration, even independent directors. I will highlight this aspect also: today every year 60 to 70 senior officers get qualified as independent directors from premier institutions. Here is a reservoir of independent directors; the corporate needs to understand this. The quality which I mentioned — the leadership qualities, or the ethics, values, work ethics, and what have you, or the integrity aspect — these are the people who are sitting, who can be a wonderful asset in terms of independent directors to the corporate. The place to get independent directors: get in touch with the AWPO, and we will be able to, you know, facilitate these officers.

So DGR is one, and second is, it provides security agencies to the — which are there in the public sector; that is also one of the major mandates of DGR. Petrol pumps — management of petrol pumps, management of CNG, this thing. Even for jawans, the Safal, the Mother Dairies. So these are the things which the DGR actually provides. So it's a tri-services organization. It comes under the Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare under the Ministry of Defence, and it is a very, very powerful organization for the support of the veterans.

A very personal question: what inspired you to take on the role of the managing director? What were your personal motivations?

Yeah. You see, having worn the uniform for decades, and known the insight of our troops, I understand the unique pride, challenges, and aspirations that come with the life in the armed forces. When the opportunity arose to lead AWPO, I saw it was a chance to give back to the society, or to this organization. And mind you, it's been an eye opener for me personally. I had not imagined that this is the canvas on which one is going to work, and my personal motivation stems from the belief that those who have served the nation deserve continued dignity, purpose and security. In this area, it is not only giving jobs to them. Actually, you are giving a job to one person — I think more is the satisfaction you're giving to his family.

A person comes to me for a job. But why has he come? I understand, because he's got a daughter. You see the age at which they are retiring. Today their retirement starts at 35. No other organization in the country where people retire at the age of 35 or 45; every government organization, the minimum age is 60, and here is a chap who's standing in front of me at the age of 40, when he's got a child studying in class 10 and a daughter who's got to go to college, and pension is very minuscule, and therefore he requires a job. When you provide a job to one individual, it is the entire family which gets the satisfaction and the more happiness they get. I think for me, happiness is you get a lot of ashwad from everyone. Ashwad definitely — not ashwad, that's my job. I think I have been mandated for that, and the more I do, I think more satisfaction I get, more than anyone else.

Yeah. Then tell me something. You know, if somebody was to walk up to you who's looking for a job — he doesn't go to your staff, he comes to you — what advice would you give him?

Yeah, I see. You see, everything cannot be worked through rules or guidelines. These are just guidelines for me. I see the priority first. The advice which I give him first is: empower yourself. But if he's empowered, if he's looking for a job, I see what is the urgency for his job. That is very important.

Urgency of the fitment — what would you do first?

Urgency of the fitment. I look at the urgency, because his requirement is more at this stage. If I tell him to go and start learning, and, you know, it'll take another one year to understand and learn, and once he comes back, I think the job is gone. Yeah. So I'll tell you, I'll give you both sides. One boy, a sepoy, went — came to me — sorry, not to me, he went to one of the regional offices, to the director directly. He said, sir, I am in requirement of my job, and my age is just about 37, and this gentleman was actually engaging drivers. He said, do you know driving? He said no. He said, go and learn driving. This boy went, he learned driving for 15 days, and he learned driving, came back. He never drove; none of his in his family had ever driven a vehicle. This guy learned driving, came back to him, and he got a job, and today he is one of the drivers with Bihar police, driving the 112 emergency response vehicle.

That's excellent. That's excellent.

Yeah. This is a live example. You see the happiness — and this boy sends me, when he sends me the video, "sir, this is, I'm driving this vehicle" — so more than him, I get the happiness.

What advice would you give to the potential employers in the corporate world? You know, because when they are hiring, they come with a very different idea: I'm going to take up a serviceman. How do you bridge that gap?

You see, don't look at the servicemen into verticals. Generally the corporate, what they do, they put into verticals, but they have a system; that's their system of function. I think he's a comprehensive package. A veteran, ex-serviceman, is a comprehensive package. He has to look into with that perspective as to how I can utilize it. So yes, skill sets — definitely the qualifications which you are looking, definitely you look at that, but let us now go beyond security. Let's not — you know, there are many better opportunities, and I think the veterans can provide much more than mundane jobs. Yeah. So I think that the mindset has to change with the employer also, or the corporate also. They have to understand that yes, because the amount of experience and training which a veteran undergoes is mindboggling — you yourself would bear with me. So this kind of skill set, if he's got — when I talked of tolerance for ambiguity, taking decision, crisis response mechanism is very fast.

So these are the things — I recently visited one of the multinationals in Mumbai. I was more than happy to see almost hundred of them, veterans, working in their company, and so if those people, from — it's a US-based company — if they can employ veterans, I think there is, I would say, a need to understand the potential of veterans in a different perspective. They are a national resource, and utilize them to your advantage, to create a win-win situation.

Absolutely. I had gone to the United States and I visited an organization that only employed veterans in the United States, and the output of that organization far exceeded those of its competitors. So, you know, that's something that we need to sort of educate the corporate world: that if they do so, they're going to have a better outcome.

Yeah, they are experienced. They know the job, it's not that, and they are very, very fast at uptake, very, very fast, because they have experience. So little bit of orientation — do orient them properly, give them time to understand, and I think they will, in any vertical. We are working with a hotel industry now, pan India, and it's a US-based company. They are hiring veterans, they are hiring widows, they are hiring my dependents as well. As we speak, inclusive programs are underway in three of the metros today itself. So, you know, these are the opportunities. I think our own corporates have to understand and take it on ASAP.

So you had the Agniveers coming into the armed forces. So the Agniveers who get ejected at an early stage — are they also working through the AWPO for getting jobs?

No, as of now — once the status of Agniveer is clear, I'm sure we will be able to take on. As of now, I'm not looking at it per se, but surely, once the Ministry of Defence tells us whatever is the ruling, we will definitely take.

If you were to advise the corporate world as to how successful integration of veterans into civil life can be, what would you tell?

My — this thing is, for the — today, I think the corporate world have to understand the potential of our veterans. That is first. And second is, why can't, you know, we merge together and work together to utilize their potential? One thing I can straight away bring out is, why can't we have internship program based absorption? You please take them for 3 months, train them, test them and employ them. If you don't find them suitable, please leave them; at least you give them a certificate. So the veterans have got potential. They have it in them. Please explore them in terms of technical skills, non-technical skills, social skills. And second is, take the best. You are not doing a welfare to us. You take — we, AWPO, an organization like AWPO, will support you if you want the best people to work with. We will provide you the best of the veterans to work with you. So this program which I talked of — internship, and make them industry ready and absorb them — I think that is one thing which I am looking at.

Ladies and gentlemen, to conclude the session today, I'd like to thank Major General Chauhan for the immense light that he has shed on this organization, AWPO. It is clear that this organization is much more than a placement agency. It is a lifeline for thousands of veterans and their families, ensuring their dignity and continued contribution to society. Their dedication to a no-profit, no-loss model, coupled with a nationwide network and a focus on skill matching, truly exemplifies a commitment to welfare. As they continue to connect skilled ex-army personnel with deserving opportunities, AWPO strengthens not just individual lives but also our national workforce. Thank you, General Chauhan, for sharing your insights on this vital mission that you've undertaken.

Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. Thank you very much. Jai Hind, sir. Thank you.